lets cut the bs guys...

[dealtimeman]

i see alot of guys saying they are running 250-260 atw and no matter what i do i cant get that atw. i ran 18 flow and still didnt achieve it the highest i got was 230 atw. at the machine i can be running 310 and never get up to 260. i understand there is radiant heat loss but you guys that are running that are you using only 50 feet of solution hose and are you running a digital thermometer? i am running a straight 200ft line and you can smell it cooking but it never gets higher than 230 even if i stay on it. which brings up something else how are you running that without keeping the wand keyed for along time?

 

[TimP]

How much solution line you run and the insulation properties of the hose make a huge difference. Not to mention PSI and flow at your wand.

 

[Bob Foster]

we been through this a few times. Do a search and you will find pictures of lie detectors at the wand that verify 250+.

Would I clean there ?- I doubt it.

Do you really find much application for that really high temp? No

Does 240 up cleaning temperatures (even ATM) create safety and more maintenance issues? Hell yes

Is 220-230 good? Yes

Is 190 good? Barely acceptable though you would find it long in the tooth if you have enjoyed cleaning anywhere above and HONEST 210.

Those who haven't used higher heat - you aren't qualified to talk about results unless you have personally experienced higher heat over a good period of time cleaning. The rest of you get some heat or at least get some serious agitation, which you should have anyway. (If you don't understand what the cleaning pie is then ask someone here)

 

[ruff]

Please separate the real world from the "Virtual Mikey's Board" world.

Completely two unrelated worlds.

I am not sure that some of them, actually clean carpets.

Rule number one: Whatever Mikey does is the gospel.

Rule number two: If they claim it isn't-- refer them to rule number one.

Problem solved.

 

[TimP]

The way I see it as close as you can get to 210 atw the better. Just as long as you aren't spraying straight steam have at it. The reason you want a machine to produce more heat is for dual wands or long hose runs when needed. There is a reason why you have a temp adjustment on a TM is so that when you don't need the heat you can turn it down.

 

[juniorc82]

I unserstand that you dont want everyone putting their 2 cents in who has not cleaned at that temp on a regular .Now according to your profile with only 4 years in the trade who are you to say who is qualified or not to speak on a topic as you are still somewhat new to the game. I dont thonk any of us should get all high and mighty as we all stand to learn somthing from eachother.

we been through this a few times. Do a search and you will find pictures of lie detectors at the wand that verify 250+.

Would I clean there ?- I doubt it.

Do you really find much application for that really high temp? No

Does 240 up cleaning temperatures (even ATM) create safety and more maintenance issues? Hell yes

Is 220-230 good? Yes

Is 190 good? Barely acceptable though you would find it long in the tooth if you have enjoyed cleaning anywhere above and HONEST 210.

Those who haven't used higher heat - you aren't qualified to talk about results unless you have personally experienced higher heat over a good period of time cleaning. The rest of you get some heat or at least get some serious agitation, which you should have anyway. (If you don't understand what the cleaning pie is then ask someone here)

 

[boazcan]

I have had heat at the machine of 300+ and fried 250' of parflex hose. It took about 5 minutes before I checked the truck after the wand was making the fiercest, scariest hissing noise I had ever heard. I was more scared than impressed.

I have tried various flows from 10 - 20 with heat maxed out. We settled on 15 flow because we dual wand about 50% of the time. It will hold 230-250 depending on the day. I only borrowed a digital thermometer for a couple of days and found I averaged between 12-15 degree temp loss from truck to wand.

Cutting the bs, I will take the flow over heat all day long. 220 - 230 with high flow seems to be our best combo. I really don't notice much of a difference over this expect burn marks on my ankles. You are not accomplishing much from 230-260 except increasing your risk for trouble. If there is any improvement, I have not seen it with my eye. So no way the customer will ever see it.

 

[Bob Foster]

I unserstand that you dont want everyone putting their 2 cents in who has not cleaned at that temp on a regular .Now according to your profile with only 4 years in the trade who are you to say who is qualified or not to speak on a topic as you are still somewhat new to the game. I dont thonk any of us should get all high and mighty as we all stand to learn somthing from eachother.

we been through this a few times. Do a search and you will find pictures of lie detectors at the wand that verify 250+.

Would I clean there ?- I doubt it.

Do you really find much application for that really high temp? No

Does 240 up cleaning temperatures (even ATM) create safety and more maintenance issues? Hell yes

Is 220-230 good? Yes

Is 190 good? Barely acceptable though you would find it long in the tooth if you have enjoyed cleaning anywhere above and HONEST 210.

Those who haven't used higher heat - you aren't qualified to talk about results unless you have personally experienced higher heat over a good period of time cleaning. The rest of you get some heat or at least get some serious agitation, which you should have anyway. (If you don't understand what the cleaning pie is then ask someone here)

Junior, it is a valid point - I have been cleaning for a little over 4 years. But I stand by my statements and if you knew me you would know I am not high and mighty. But the arm chair critics will come out that never or hardly ever cleaned with higher heat will maintain you don't need higher heat.

So in order to cut off those that haven't got the experience with high heat ( and I sure the hell do) I want them to sit back and hear from those that have significant experience with high heat.

Can you clean without high heat well? Absolutely. Except IMO not nearly as well with out using significantly more agitation, dwell and juice. It isn't nearly as efficient. If you were to use the same amount of juice, dwell and agitation with higher heat as you did with lower heat my experience, which many others will verify, you would get better results. It is remarkably better and vastly more efficient. For one thing using higher heat you will use half the cleaning chemicals.

I went from a radiator powered heat exchange typically found in most CDS machines that only can put out the temperature of the truck radiator at the machine of 185-150 to propane fired heat working at 230 (and higher) ATM in a Judson TNT truckmount and wow its way better. And by the way, faster dry times too. For restaurants I crank it even higher. The higher the heat in a restaurant the better you cut and remove the grease.

I would hate to work without my higher heat now as it would be a big step backward.

 

[LeeCory]

Foster you crack me up as usual... LOL I love reading your posts, you are very funny.

You don't have to eat pie to be a carpet cleaner. As a matter of opinion I think most carpet cleaners eat too much pie, me included.

 

[Bob Foster]

Glad I can be a smart ass to at least a few people. Junior, it's just that this heat thing is real cool.

I'm backing off the pie - most of the time.

But I did have a extra large DQ Blizzard last night.

 

[B&BGaryC]

HatMan!

Are you using goodyear or parflex?

 

[Doug Cox]

In MY opinion, I make upwards of 50 % more money using my Genesis over my HM CDS. The higher heat and vac make a large difference in production. Even though I have to deal with a SHUTDOWN ISSUE on my POWERCLEAN GENESIS, I still make a good amount more money.

 

[juniorc82]

Glad I can be a smart ass to at least a few people. Junior, it's just that this heat thing is real cool.

I'm backing off the pie - most of the time.

But I did have a extra large DQ Blizzard last night.

right on man. you are exactly right by emphasizing the pie. I think alot of carpet cleaners think that the equipment is more important than knowledge of the trade. things such as the pie, ph levels, fiber id and other things I have learned in the areas I am certified in have helped me to compete with larger companys with much better equipment than me. do you know that I was talking to a competitor from a neighboring town about 25 mins. up the road who was an owner operator running a prochem everest who did not know what role the ph system played in our job! this was shocking! maybe he will get a clue when he tries to clean some wool or maybe a linen or jaquard sofa!
anyway didnt mean to rattle ya bob I just try to show more support to the quality of the tech rather than the quality of the equpiment.

 

[Doug Cox]

Let's be serious Jon, you've been doing this for 3 years and you think you know what you speak of. Until you run a big ass machine and have been in the biz for 20+ years, you won't have a clue. Being schooled means nothing. Being out cleaning for 25 years speaks way more to most guys on here than a IICRC class.

 

[Cameron1]

My 3ht's have been making me some cheerleaders for quite awhile now. I guess some need heat, some need flow, some need glides, some need agitation, some need this and that.

I don't think it really matters as long as you got game.

 

[LeeCory]

Doug, I also run a Genesis... why is your machine shutting down?

 

[Blue Monarch]

I skipped most of this thread, but here goes anyway. Water boils at 212. Under pressure, it can be much hotter. Someone explain to me how you can have liquid h20 after the water leaves the jets when you have 220+ ATW.....

I hope I'm missing something here.

 

[steve frasier]

I don't know what the temp was but I have had a few time swhen the water hisses when it comes out of the jets and I have to wear gloves so I would go out and turn the machine down

 

[Doug Cox]

You tell me Lee. I've replaced just about every part on my POWERCLEAN GENESIS without any luck at solving my problem , let alone getting parts from POWERCLEAN INDUSTRIES.

 

[dealtimeman]

that is what i am talking about dirk, my wand at about 210 starts whistling and at 230 is whustling and popping. after each pass you can see vapor coming out of the carpet if the a/c is on in the house.

 

[Mikey P]

Please separate the real world from the "Virtual Mikey's Board" world.

Completely two unrelated worlds.

I am not sure that some of them, actually clean carpets.

Rule number one: Whatever Mikey does is the gospel.

Rule number two: If they claim it isn't-- refer them to rule number one.

Problem solved.

tmf'r?


is this the reSoiltard guy?

 

[Dolly Llama]

I didn't read all the posts, so forgive if I'm being redundant.

i see alot of guys saying they are running 250-260 atw and no matter what i do i cant get that atw. i ran 18 flow and still didnt achieve it the highest i got was 230 atw.

so because of that, you belive no one else can?

I'd suggest here's why YOU can't;

i am running a straight 200ft line

probably steel braid too, right?

plug in 100ft of thermoplastic sol line and take a reading.

When you hear the wand spray go to a "tearing" sound, you'll know you're getting close.
Then it goes to tear and HISSSSS sound.
THEN you're up there in the "use with extreme caution" range.
And if you're equipment and lines aren't in tip top shape, don't go there at all...


My next thought is, why in the world would a guy run one 200ft sol line?
Two hundreds would be better IMO.
I don't know what your average hose run is, but 100ft gets us to the majority of out jobs
(60% or better anyway)

so why put wear on an extra 100ft of sol line that's not needed?

if 125ft run is your average run, them make twin 125's

rotate them every few/several months.


..L.T.A.

 

[Greenie]

This 230 high flow stuff is news to me, tell me more.

That does happen to be the rating for parflex thermoplastic hose, which does insulate better on 200' runs.

 

[Farenheit251]

There is so much misunderstanding where cleaners think they are cleaning with vapor above 212 degrees. While many haver mentioned water staying liquid at higher temps under pressure there is more to it.
Put a pan on the stove filled with water and a thermometer and boil. Once it boils the thermo will read 212 and the pan will be empty not. There is a reaction to change from solid-liquid-gas and additional energy needed. If you want to create vapor immediately you are going to need to get closer to 270-300 ATW.

 

[juniorc82]

Let's be serious Jon, you've been doing this for 3 years and you think you know what you speak of. Until you run a big ass machine and have been in the biz for 20+ years, you won't have a clue. Being schooled means nothing. Being out cleaning for 25 years speaks way more to most guys on here than a IICRC class.

I never claimed to be an expert . All I claimed is that people depend on their equipment more than what they should. And about your 25 years, I have seen people around for years and years in this business that still didnt have a clue.If you have been doing things the wrong way, your 25 years really dont mean much does it? I dont believe some iicrc certifications are the fix all but I do believe it is a good foundation to have .

 

[TimP]

Every time I say something that a person don't agree or like. They point out my 2 years in the biz....it's actually 2.5 years now. But I have 6 certifications and probably 7 in a few weeks. I've spent many hours learning and listening to those with more experience than me. So my 2.5 years can equal many more years for someone who has no patches and never seen the board and has always just got by and didn't know any better.

 

[Bob Foster]

Not to mention that some of our more experienced guys here did not have the benefit of some darn good bulletin boards in their early informative years. A year or two here of paying close attention is worth at least 3 or 4 years of experience.




I personally don't know how I could have ever cleaned without BaWb Vawter's informative posts...

 

[juniorc82]

Every time I say something that a person don't agree or like. They point out my 2 years in the biz....it's actually 2.5 years now. But I have 6 certifications and probably 7 in a few weeks. I've spent many hours learning and listening to those with more experience than me. So my 2.5 years can equal many more years for someone who has no patches and never seen the board and has always just got by and didn't know any better.

thank you tim. I guess because we were not shampooing rugs with cocanut oil and a 175 with doug back in the 1950's our opinion does not matter. I also have taken several certifications and believe it to be a good foundation. However Doug, I do see your point about being in the trade for a while and yes knowledge does come with experience. however it doesnt take 25 years to learn how to clean a carpet . especialy in the nylon and olefin age. Well I guess nylon and olefin is new to doug as well since it was probly all jute, and burnt orange wool when he got his start

 

[Doug Cox]

I'm sorry Jon- I was still learning how to do things more efficiently well past 20 years in this business and am still learning, so if you think your all done learning, think again. I also don't argue that there are guys that just coast along doing things wrong for 20 years. It all comes down to the person doing the work. I've been in this for 25+ years and will clean almost anything and I am not certified, but I'm still here, so I must be doing something right. Let me know when you make it as long as I have.

 

[juniorc82]

I'm sorry Jon- I was still learning how to do things more efficiently well past 20 years in this business and am still learning, so if you think your all done learning, think again. I also don't argue that there are guys that just coast along doing things wrong for 20 years. It all comes down to the person doing the work. I've been in this for 25+ years and will clean almost anything and I am not certified, but I'm still here, so I must be doing something right. Let me know when you make it as long as I have.

your good doug you know how us young bucks are. you make a valid point and I look foward to tormenting you for the next 25 years just kidding. no but you are right , and seem to be a knowledgable person in this field. I guess I always have my guard up because the older guys are always tryin to bulldog me and bad mouth me for my age in my town